below is a paste of the front of this, my recent, essay.
most jws, and lurkers here, have never really thought of the scope of watchtower's 1914 prophecy.
to them, 1914 was a simple one and done -- a mistake was made and it's been corrected.
Thanks, Perry -- and thanks for your perspective.
And BruisedAndBleeding12 for the compliment. PDF format, for me, is easiest to WYSIWYG especially with cross refs, bookmarks, endnotes, tables, embedding graphics, etc. It's all free using Libre Writer.
I know, being retired I've got too much time on my hands.
Thanks Chook for thinking outside the box.
Len
below is a paste of the front of this, my recent, essay.
most jws, and lurkers here, have never really thought of the scope of watchtower's 1914 prophecy.
to them, 1914 was a simple one and done -- a mistake was made and it's been corrected.
Well noted, Finkelstein.
It is my belief that as Russell began his religious studies and got exposed to the adventism of those days -- looking over the computations of Miller and his ilk, he got hooked that maybe those guys had it all figured out. He saw Miller's failed mid 1840s two dates, spotted (he thought) some flaws in Miller's ciphers and finally decided to go out on his own. Yes, he met Barbour, yada, yada. But Russell had some cash on hand, was eloquent, and charismatic -- all the tools needed to crank out some written dogma. The world at the time was ripe.
I suspect he even believed the whole thing -- till 1914 came and went.
By that time the movement was like a huge ocean liner, hard to stop or turn around. By that time there were too many of Russell's cronies, Rutherford included, who had swallowed the Koolaid and were happy just going along for the ride. Everybody at headquarters patting each other on the back. Russell drinking in the adoration -- yes, he was human. And don't forget, money from all over the world was coming in.
The rest is history.
Len
below is a paste of the front of this, my recent, essay.
most jws, and lurkers here, have never really thought of the scope of watchtower's 1914 prophecy.
to them, 1914 was a simple one and done -- a mistake was made and it's been corrected.
Below is a paste of the front of this, my recent, essay. Most JWs, and lurkers here, have never really thought of the scope of Watchtower's 1914 prophecy. To them, 1914 was a simple one and done -- a mistake was made and it's been corrected. Most aren't aware of all the conditions, 26 of them by my count, that were stipulated by Watchtower publications prior to that cornerstone date.
The early Watchtower (well, Zion's Watch Tower, etc.) publications, as you will see, went through a progression of adjustments to many of these predicted conditions. It was also enlightening to me to see, as 1914 neared, the hedging of uncertainty creep in to their writings.
Len
so a few months ago, a friend sent me an actual copy of finished mystery which was published in 1917 (not a pdf download... the actual book).
i must say, this was the most disturbing book i have ever had the displeasure of reading.
but i only read it because this was the main publication that was being distributed worldwide when jesus supposedly chose the watchtower in 1918 and i basically wanted to see for myself what jesus saw in the wt that would compel him to choose this religious corporation over all other religious denominations.. anyway, if anyone is interested in knowing the actual contents of this book, here are some bullet points i put together from some of the notes i took as i read the book:.
Alfred, this is a great piece of work -- that research you did some 6 years ago. Time to resurrect it especially in view of the recently dropped Watchtower teaching of 1919.
Len
wondering if simon or anyone else have statistics for this site?i.e.
how many users are there?
how many posts have ever been made?perhaps a graph showing how many users there were at a given time?
I've been a member here since 2005 and at that time I was able to ascertain that there were more than 50,000 members of this forum. That, of course, doesn't mean they were all active. Many, I'm sure, were only "one and done" members.
Only Simon, however, could give you some type of number with any kind of validity.
i copied the following two items from jw dot orgs site entitled “dates of prophetic significance” at site below:.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200271564.
once held to be year when ‘true lord and messenger of the covenant’ came to spiritual temple (mal 3:1): w10 3/15 23; w07 4/1 22; w07 12/15 27-28; jd 179-182; re 31-32, 55-56; w92 12/1 13; w89 4/15 7; w89 7/1 30; w87 6/15 14-15. .
See the original post (and jw.org source page) on this one. On that same page adjacent to the 1919 date are the following 30 additional item that happen on that date. Are we supposed to abandon these as well?
1919,
144,000 begin “singing as if a new song” (Re 14:3): re 200
Babylon the Great falls (Re 14:8; 18:2): re 205-206, 209, 259-261; w89 5/1 3-5; w88 12/15 20-21
birth of new nation (Isa 66:8): w14 11/15 26; re 183-184; ip-2 397-400; w94 1/15 14
‘disgusting thing placed’ (Da 12:11): dp 300; w93 11/1 10-11
dry bones come to life (Eze 37): w16.03 30-31
“faithful and discreet slave” ‘appointed over master’s domestics’ (Mt 24:45): kr 23-24; w13 7/15 21-22; w13 12/15 16
‘fire hurled to earth’ (Re 8:5): w09 1/15 32; re 131-132
flight to “valley of my mountains” begins (Zec 14:5): w13 2/15 19-20
‘four angels untied’ (Re 9:15): re 149-151; w88 12/15 13
harvest actually begins (Mt 13; Re 14): kr 88-89; re 211-212
Jehovah’s chariotlike heavenly organization gets in touch with Ezekiel class (Eze 1): w91 3/15 11
Jehovah’s spirit begins to be poured out on remnant (Joe 2:28, 29): w98 5/1 14-15
“key of the house of David” placed on shoulder of remnant (Isa 22:22): w09 1/15 31
locusts swarm from abyss (Re 9): re 143-148; w89 4/1 17-18; w88 12/15 12-13
once held to be year “faithful and discreet slave” ‘appointed over master’s belongings’ (Mt 24:47): w04 3/1 12; wt 131
once held to be year faithful slaves ‘appointed over many things’ (Mt 25:21, 23): w15 3/15 24; w04 3/1 17
once held to be year virgins hear cry, “Here is the bridegroom!” (Mt 25:6): w15 3/15 14; w04 3/1 14
“opened door” set before remnant (Re 3:8): re 60-65
remnant “come quivering to Jehovah” (Hos 3:5): w91 8/15 17
remnant eat “little scroll” (Re 10:8-11): re 159-160
remnant figuratively resurrected: dp 290-291; w88 10/15 13; w87 7/1 21-23
remnant freed from Babylon the Great: w16.11 30; ip-2 74; ip-1 400-401; w89 5/1 4-5
remnant ‘hold possession of land’ (Isa 60:21): w02 7/1 18; ip-2 319-320
remnant refined (Isa 1:24-27): ip-1 32-34
remnant restored to spiritual paradise: ip-1 380; w91 5/15 16
remnant step before “waters” of mankind (Jos 3:15-17): w86 12/15 13
two witnesses resurrected (Re 11:11, 12): w14 11/15 30; re 169-170
“Way of Holiness” opened (Isa 35:8): ip-1 380-381; ws 132-134
“your God has become king” begins to be declared (Isa 52:7): ip-2 187
i had seen it before but never actually looked.. sure enough in july 15 2013 wt .... 17 in the past, we have stated in our publications that these last four references apply to jesus’ arriving, or coming, in 1918. as an example, take jesus’ statement about “the faithful and discreet slave.” (read matthew 24:45-47.
) we understood that the “arriving” mentioned in verse 46 was linked to the time when jesus came to inspect the spiritual condition of the anointed in 1918 and that the appointment of the slave over all the master’s belongings occurred in 1919.
(mal.
Ya'll just busted my bubble!
i copied the following two items from jw dot orgs site entitled “dates of prophetic significance” at site below:.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200271564.
once held to be year when ‘true lord and messenger of the covenant’ came to spiritual temple (mal 3:1): w10 3/15 23; w07 4/1 22; w07 12/15 27-28; jd 179-182; re 31-32, 55-56; w92 12/1 13; w89 4/15 7; w89 7/1 30; w87 6/15 14-15. .
I just did a search for "1919" in my Watchtower Lib and it returned 2425 instances. That is, in all publications since 1950, the Watchtower repeatedly told us how important that date is (or was).
To me, that doesn't say a lot about their credibility -- or does it?
Please, Watchtower, don't abandon 1914 just yet. We need more time to digest this wonderful food at the proper time.
Len
i copied the following two items from jw dot orgs site entitled “dates of prophetic significance” at site below:.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200271564.
once held to be year when ‘true lord and messenger of the covenant’ came to spiritual temple (mal 3:1): w10 3/15 23; w07 4/1 22; w07 12/15 27-28; jd 179-182; re 31-32, 55-56; w92 12/1 13; w89 4/15 7; w89 7/1 30; w87 6/15 14-15. .
I copied the following two items from JW dot ORGs site entitled “DATES OF PROPHETIC SIGNIFICANCE” at site below:
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200271564
once held to be year when ‘true Lord and messenger of the covenant’ came to spiritual temple (Mal 3:1): w10 3/15 23; w07 4/1 22; w07 12/15 27-28; jd 179-182; re 31-32, 55-56; w92 12/1 13; w89 4/15 7; w89 7/1 30; w87 6/15 14-15
1918-1919, once held to be period of anointed’s captivity to Babylon the Great: w16.11 22-23, 27-29
Number 1 doesn’t give a date but references publications back to 1987. It seems these pubs give 1918 as the “once held” year. Number 2 is explicit, that 1918-1919 have been abandoned.
My question: If they abandoned 1918 and 1919 (once held) have they replaced them with other dates or are they going to leave us in limbo?
I mean – What are we going to do without knowing?
Len
dates (ad) of events once taught by watchtower as significant but no longer supported since nothing happened.. .
"but bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble.
zion's watch tower 1894 jul 15 p.226 incredibly, today’s jw’s dishonestly prefer to rewrite history, claiming "jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things.
Thanks, Splash and berrygerry. By merging these all and purging the dupes I hope to come up with an exhaustive and up-to-date list of my own -- to share, of course.
Len
